A Conversation with Ryan Gander: What's the Point of Art, Anyway?
A candid discussion about art, time, and why we create
Despite having an upcoming giant exhibition at the Pola Museum of Art in Japan, our conversation with contemporary art megastar Ryan Gander didn't touch on his latest work at all. Instead, we dove into something else: the deep philosophical questions that keep both of us up at night, exploring why any of you (or maybe even any of us) make art in the first place.
This marks my third interview with Ryan, and once again, I walked away thinking, "That's the point. That's the point of all of this. It's epic."
"Talking About Art Is Art"
Ryan is renowned for his eloquence about his practice. As he puts it, "Talking about art is art for me. It’s the same thing. I think art with no discourse around it isn't really art."
When I asked where he would start if he were interviewing himself, his answer revealed so much about his approach: "I would start talking about how amazing the world is outside the world of art."
The Art Dropout Problem
One of the most intriguing discussions centered around why people disconnect from art as they grow older. Unlike music, where someone might learn an instrument as a child and continue enjoying music throughout their life even if they don't become a professional musician, people tend to "bail from art" completely.
"That's 'cause there's this Victorian model of education that makes everything factual and tangible and not ephemeral and invisible," Ryan explained. "We don't trust things that are invisible and art is invisible."
What Makes Something "Real Art"?
According to Ryan, art that's "more cognitive than retinal, that's for your brain rather than your eyes, is not a solo pursuit." When pressed on what he meant by "real art," he was careful to note that these are his personal beliefs, though he holds them strongly.
"I don't believe art's for your eyes, I believe it's for your brain," he stated firmly. "I think there's only conceptual art. I think that's the only art. If it's not cognitive-based, it's not actually art by definition anymore, so everything else is decoration."
This provocative stance led him to a bold claim: "Most art that I see doesn't do anything. There's no cognition in it."
The Value of Confusion and Challenge
Ryan champions art that demands intellectual engagement: "I'm into the avant-garde, what the avant-garde is now, which is art that is really, really challenging, that really takes a lot of brain work to read and decipher."
What makes his own work so effective is how it balances universal accessibility with conceptual depth. His pieces often start with something seemingly obvious or relatable—like children's dens transformed into marble sculptures—creating an entry point that feels familiar before challenging the viewer to go deeper.
“So it’s ... that balance between it being a cliche. Because when you do things that are universal, that are open to everyone, that everyone can relate to, like big subjects, you know, tree trunk subjects, not branches about, “I’m in a wheelchair, I’m this, this is my life story,” that no one can relate to, but real things like the human condition, mortality, big... an outstanding artwork that people want to engage with, that confuses and challenges people, that people want to be associated with, whether it’s a museum or a private collector, but also one that makes an original contribution to human knowledge, which is the big target for me. That’s really hard.”
Beyond Personal Experience
Interestingly, despite using a wheelchair himself, Ryan deliberately avoids making art about his personal experience: "That would be selfish of me. And egocentric... it would be ungenerous and it would discriminate people, it would exclude people. Because not everybody has the handle on life that I have and the life experience that I had. Not everyone was socialized in hospital for their entire childhood."
Instead, his art aims to be inclusive, using strategies to engage people "without them realizing it's art"—like a catchy song that pulls you in before you realize what you're experiencing.
Art, Time, and Memory
When I suggested his art is about time and memory, Ryan agreed: "It is about time... I think it's also about inclusion. I think it's about making art that isn't elitist."
Our conversation veered into fascinating territory about how we experience time. "Time’s elastic," he noted, suggesting that we have more control over our experience of time than we might think. "You can use your imagination, and you can use cognition to control things like time, definitely... To slow down time, basically, and make your life longer."
This connects deeply to Ryan's artistic project, where he is asking people to pay attention to the smallest things.
In Defense of "Hard Art"
Ryan champions what he calls "hard art"—work that challenges the viewer intellectually. "I like the art that makes me cry and I feel pain... I think things that you work hard at have extra value 'cause you've worked hard at them. So I like hard art."
He contrasts this with fast food culture: "When you eat [at McDonald's], you know exactly what it's gonna cost. You know how long it'll take to eat. You know that it's really bad for you." The comparison suggests that while easily digestible content might be comforting and predictable, it doesn't provide the deeper nourishment that challenging art can offer.
The Quest for Meaning
Throughout our conversation, we circled around the fundamental question of why artists make art at all. I referenced John Edgar Wideman's book "Brothers and Keepers" and the phrase "what is"—the impossible task of fully understanding why things are the way they are.
When I suggested it might be futile to try to pinpoint exactly why artists create, Ryan responded, "It's not futile, it's a noble quest... maybe this is not the answer, it's the question that's important."
As our time drew to a close, I realized this conversation had felt like mere minutes despite its actual length—a perfect demonstration of Ryan's point about the elasticity of time. His work continues to challenge conventions and push viewers to engage deeply with art that demands their full attention and cognitive effort.
In Ryan Gander's world, the hardest art is often the most rewarding—not because it's deliberately obscure, but because it asks us to slow down, pay attention, and think. Perhaps that's the point of all of this, after all.
Ryan Gander’s exhibition, YOU COMPLETE ME, opens at the Pola Museum of Art on May 31st, 2025.